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The Banshees and critical acclaim

Author	Comment
Moonbeam	The Banshees and critical acclaim	Lead	[-]
Posts: 11 (23/01/09 02:41:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : critical, acclaim, scream, acclaimedmusic I pose this thread as a question to those who surely know more than I do about the Banshees and their history. I am a member of a great forum dedicated to using statistical techniques (I'm a statistician myself) to rank the top 3000 albums and singles of all time based upon hundreds of critics lists, and subsequently rank the greatest artists. Siouxsie and the Banshees place at a lowly 484 on the artist tally, with entires for albums of The Scream at 876 and Juju at 1981 (how appropriate!) and "Hong Kong Garden" coming in at number 807. I wrote a rather ranty post about the tendency of critics to overvalue debut efforts from artists and the fact that their rankings on the site both undervalue and misrepresent the work of the Banshees as a whole. My question to you is three-sided: 1. Do you feel The Scream merits the notoriety of being their best album, and Juju second best? 2. Do you feel that these rankings reflect the opinions of the fanbase overall? 3. Do you feel these rankings accurately reflect their reception by critics? Any input would be greatly appreciated!
The Real Belfagor		#1	[-]
Posts: 952 (23/01/09 08:54:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1. I think THE SCREAM and JUJU merit these descriptions because of their overall consistency as albums. I certainly don't believe THE SCREAM is overvalued: some people don't like the production, but it's a pretty seamless album. 2. I don't think this necessarily reflects fanbase opinions, however, but that's only to be expected. Critics' lists rarely have anything to do with fans' views. My personal ranking of top Banshees albums would be: JOIN HANDS, THE SCREAM, TINDERBOX, KALEIDOSCOPE, JUJU. A KISS IN THE DREAMHOUSE and PEEPSHOW are extremely well-regarded on this forum and by Banshees fans in general, but personally I'd place both near the BOTTOM of my list, especially PEEPSHOW. Many fans think TINDERBOX is very average, I think it's a masterpiece. As you can see, my favourite album is probably the one that received the worst panning from critics. I don't care, as far I'm concerned JOIN HANDS blows UNKNOWN PLEASURES out of the water any day of the fucking week! 3. I suppose this is quite an accurate reflection of their critical status, but every Banshees album received more than its fair share of slaggings, these two included. Except for wanky old SUPERSTITION, which deserves to receive even more than it actually got.
metalguru242		#2	[-]
Posts: 740 (23/01/09 15:28:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	take a look at the siouxsie & the banshees bio on wikipedia. You'll find links for several reviews. Actually, the most critically acclaimed album (by the NME, Melody Maker) was at its release 1982's "a kiss in the dreamhouse". NME concluded a dithyrambic review by this now well-known sentence : "I'll promise; this music will take your breath away". To me, it's almost impossible to musically compare the guitarist McKay'era (1978-1979) and the guitarist McGeoch'era (1980-82). The 5 first albums are considered as 5 stars by a lot of people. Take a look at the pages created for each album on wikipedia.
octopuskeeper		#3	[-]
Posts: 135 (23/01/09 19:57:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1. Do you feel The Scream merits the notoriety of being their best album, and Juju second best? IT IS HAILED FOR ITS BRILLIANCE FOR BEING A BOLD DEBUT, SO I SEE WHY IT RETAINS THAT NOTORIETY, HOWEVER, I FEEL THAT THEIR TRIPTYCH OF INCOMPARABLE BRILLIANCE IS "KALEIDOSCOPE" FOLLOWED BY "JUJU" FOLLOWED BY "A KISS IN THE DREAMHOUSE." 2. Do you feel that these rankings reflect the opinions of the fanbase overall? NO. THE FANS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE WITH THEIR LIKES AND DISLIKES, WHICH IS VERY MUCH IN THE SPIRIT OF THE BANSHEES, ACTUALLY. SOMEONE WHO LOATHES AND DETESTS "JOIN HANDS" WILL INEVITABLY COME UP AGAINST ONE WHO BELIEVES IT IS THE GREATEST ALBUM EVER MADE. 3. Do you feel these rankings accurately reflect their reception by critics? VERY FEW CRITICS HAVE EVER REALLY UNDERSTOOD THE BANSHEES, AND FOR THE MOST PART I HAVE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE CRITICS. PRESENTLY, HOWEVER, THE LEGACY OF THE BANSHEES IS GROWING STRONGER AND STRONGER, AND ON ITS OWN MERITS, SO ALL THOSE CRITIQUES -- GOOD AND BAD --REALLY MAKE NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER. WHAT MATTERS IS THE MUSIC. and we can dream all we want to
Moonbeam		#4	[-]
Posts: 14 (24/01/09 01:41:54) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for the responses, guys! I'm a new fan, but I can see the great diversity in the Banshees' work, and can therefore understand that there is a great diversity in the reception of fans to the albums. The same thing goes for Prince, although there are a few albums that are generally regarded as his greatest. It's a shame that the Banshees haven't gotten more love from the critics. But the music really does speak for itself.
John The Flower Man		#5	[-]
Posts: 457 (24/01/09 02:26:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1. It's all down to personal taste, of course. I certainly rank 'The Scream' as one of The Banshees finest albums. It shows that they knew exactly what they were doing from day one and easily stands up alongside later, arguably more sophisticated offerings. Compare their instant brilliance to the troubled journey made by The Jam (my second favourite band of all time - The Creatures being joint No.1 with The Banshees, naturally). Their first album was rather rough around the edges and only hinted at the magnificence to come. Their very difficult second album was a real mess and the worst thing they ever did. It wasn't until their third, the awesome 'All Mod Cons', that they finally showed just what they were capable of. 'Juju' is my all time favourite Banshees masterpiece. Why? It just is! And I think its the album that more than any other defines the band in the eyes (and ears) of the public. 2. If every Siouxsie fan were to write a list of his or her ranking of The Banshees albums I'd be surprised to see two lists the same. That's as much a reflection of the band's musical diversity and artistic consistency as it is of their fans' open-minded approach to their music. 3. The Banshees always received mixed reviews. Overall I'd say they were decidedly unappreciated. The fact that 'Superstition' wasn't hailed as the musical equivalent of the second coming shows just how wrong critics can be. (You may notice a slight divergence of opinion on this subject between myself and Belf!)
Wing Commander Thrush		#6	[-]
Posts: 1073 (24/01/09 10:18:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Their first album was rather rough around the edges and only hinted at the magnificence to come. Their very difficult second album was a real mess and the worst thing they ever did. It wasn't until their third, the awesome 'All Mod Cons', that they finally showed just what they were capable of. Know this is band related and some will feel we shouldn't be talking about The Jam here, but I have to say I agree with these comments. The comparison in the relative merits between the bands albums is almost spot on. 'Kaleidoscope' is my favourite SATB album, 'All Mod Cons' my favourite Jam album. I say almost spot on as 'a real mess and the worst thing they ever did' doesn't enforce my veiw of 'Join Hands.' 'The Lords Prayer' on the other hand is 'a real mess and one of the worst thing they ever did.' But side one, for those of us old enough to have bought this on vinyl, was as good as, maybe better than 'The Scream.' 'The Lords Prayer', I'm afraid, drags the album down. All Siouxsie fans are different, some have the same tastes, others don't. Be boring if we agreed all the time. Fuck the critics, if we listened to them we'd all be on the fucking 'Elbow' website, for fucks sake! You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself.
John The Flower Man		#7	[-]
Posts: 458 (24/01/09 15:24:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Carrying on (no, not up the Khyber) the Banshees/Jam album comparisons, I'd say it stretches still further. For it was with their respective fourth albums, 'Juju' and 'Setting Sons', that both bands hit a commercial peak, whilst their fifth LP's, 'A Kiss In The Dreamhouse' and 'Sound Affects', saw them pushing their musical boundaries and experimenting like never before - as though wilfully trying to avoid cashing in on their previous album's success. (Both feature arty little instrumental interludes between some tracks too.) It was with their sixth studio albums that they went their seperate ways: 'The Gift' was The Jam's most overtly chart-friendly release, it was massively popular and to everyone's dismay (yes, I admit it - I cried when it was officially announced that they were splitting) it turned out to be their swan song. 'Hyaena', conversely, was defiantly chart-unfriendly (as though they thought, "Oh no! We've just had our biggest hit ever with 'Dear Prudence' - oh the shame of it!"), didn't exactly sell in the millions and, thankfully, was merely the midway point in their illustrious career.
dunczilla		#8	[-]
Posts: 62 (24/01/09 15:36:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I had a very animated conversation on this subject with a mate of mine in the pub, just before Siouxsie's Mantaray show last February. He eventually presented me with this scenario: "Siouxsie's entire recorded output (in whatever guise) is in a heap on the table. I have a gun to your head. Pick ONE album." I picked Boomerang. It is one of only a few albums I could listen to every single day and never get tired of (Hounds of Love being another), and though it in no way stands any taller than any other Banshees/Creatures opus, it is always an immensely satisfying experience to listen to and luxuriate in. The mood, the atmosphere, that voice... plus there WAS a gun to my head!

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